Wednesday, May 13, 2009


Some quotes from an apo journey...

OK, here are some bite size pieces…

·      “The Lord does nothing without revealing this plan to his servants the prophets…that season has come to an end… calling us to move into a way in which we have never been before. I sense ‘team within teams’ and the various teams are going to change in nature…this time is the birthing of a second baby…labor brings pain and there will be pangs which have been sharp and sore…there is an excitement of the unknown… need to be wide open to the new thing that God is doing…” Gill P.[from her prophecy]

·      “ The mission of the church needs constantly to be renewed and reconceived” David Bosch

·      “…genuine gospel freedom, it seems, is difficult to maintain over the long haul and one cannot bind it down in well meaning structure. But when organizations enshrine this culture of restraint, they are extremely hard to change…. No historical denomination has ever been able to fully recover its earlier, more fluid and dynamic movement ethos again. That is why it is the network structure where power and responsibility is diffused throughout the organization and not concentrated at the center, that more approximates our real nature and calling as the body of Christ. A network structure thus guards us from the dangerous creep of religious institutionalism…” Alan Hirsch

·      “[after John Wimber died, Todd was suddenly left with the movement… he did some incredible study as too where the vineyard was to go… - pages 350 and 351 in the Quest for the Radical Middle…] Peter Wagner counseled Todd to consider breaking the Vineyard into what he called ‘apostolic networks’. This new area of research recognizes that we are entering into a postdenominational era where apostolic men are rising up… to gather around them clusters of churches, either through church planting or adoption…[now the most painful line in the book -  Todd took this to the V board and…] Having no takers in rthe apostolic network direction…” They are now a denomination… FROM Bill Jackson

·      At the Umhlanga team time, when asked “Rigs what do you think God is saying, I said Tighten to loosten”. (Relationships must be tightened but not as an end to themselves. 25yrs of covenant togetherness must give us a solid foundation for some robust debate. Structure, modus operandi, hardened positions on some issues must be loosened.) At the most recent time I was asked again. My answer was “Ask God for COURAGE because it will be essential for what is coming in terms of change and mandate.” More than ever I believe it is a time for courage. Courage to speak/debate with honor. Courage to measure and audit. … Courage to confront our own bias and preferences. Courage to admit that we have perhaps weighed some truths disproportionately to others (our ecclessiology ahead of our Christology). Courage to bring in some fresh minds from outside of our ranks. Courage to change and even make the hard choices. In a short while we will be a decade into the 21st C. By then it may be too late to re-invent ourselves under the leading of the Holy Spirit. I sense He is stirring, speaking and provoking! This ongoing conversation/dialogue/debate is crucial. I am so encouraged. May God help us to honor our roots as we charter new routes!... RW

·      William McDonald, a member of the Brethren movement describes the problem faced by many movements:

      “Most spiritual movements have been aptly described in the       word series: man ... movement ... machine . . . monument.       At the outset there is a man, anointed in a special way by the       Holy       Spirit. As others are led into the truth, a movement       develops. But by the second or third generation, people are       following a       system with sectarian, machine-like precision.       Eventually       nothing is left but a lifeless, denominational       monument”. FROM HB.

·      Donald Miller predicts “the … inevitable evolution of the new paradigm [his term for ‘new apostolic’] groups toward denominationalism. In time, they will start centralising authority, insisting on uniform practices, and creating bureaucratic layers of approval for acts that previously

were spontaneous and Spirit-led”. FROM HB

·      Without getting too theological, it must be stated that:

1.    God is an artist, so he is always involved in creativity, freedom, spontaneity, and uniqueness.

2.  God is an architect, so he has a design [or redesign] based on the nature of the building he has in mind. This design is not just as the wind blows, rather, he has plans and patterns…

3.  God is a builder, so he is systematic in how he builds. We do not have to guess, nor is his blueprint a mystery. Apostles are expert builders; apostles and prophets lay foundations… great building language…

4.  God is a wind maker, so is everyone born of the Spirit. Lest we become so cold, mechanical and mental… we are reminded, “the wind of the Spirit blows where it wills… so it is with everyone born of the Spirit of God”… FROM CW



·      This table may help.








Father with orphans

Father with sons

Sons become fathers with sons





The Team

Teams within/among /alongside Teams

Loose disconnected leaders-looking for…

The Apostle

Apostolic Fathers

All lead pastors

General Practitioners

Specific specialized gifts / offices


One tribe

Many Apostolic “Networks”





1 comment:

  1. This list of quotes is a bit disheartening! Church history seems to suggest that sustaining a movement's early, organic momentum is difficult as it grows. It requires deliberate action and a deliberate decision to follow the radical adjustments/leadings of the Holy Spirit. The clouds moving, do we follow or stay put because the land's so beautiful and comfortable and change too demanding?